Curse

reetkever · Apr 22, 2007, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvershock

* I killed around 50 monsters, mostly undead yes.

* You draw a wrong conclusion about where i farm.

* And lastly, I hide where I farm to prevent ArenaNet to 'rebalance' things. They prob won't, but i hate to take chances on this 1.

I counted the drops and they were 32. This excludes multiple drops of bones and dust. With that, it would become about 35.

If you kill about 50 monsters and get 35 drops, you'd get 70% of the drops. Which is b/s.

Also, I don't know any area where 50 Undead are bunched up near a portal, with a boss. Somehow you manage to lure 50 monsters through the area and kill them within 5 minutes? And you also get 70% of the drops? Yeah right...

silvershock · Apr 22, 2007, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

I counted the drops and they were 32. This excludes multiple drops of bones and dust. With that, it would become about 35.

If you kill about 50 monsters and get 35 drops, you'd get 70% of the drops. Which is b/s.

Also, I don't know any area where 50 Undead are bunched up near a portal, with a boss. Somehow you manage to lure 50 monsters through the area and kill them within 5 minutes? And you also get 70% of the drops? Yeah right...

F*ck it. Outside bergen hot springs, kill all the undead till u reach the swirl to cursed lands. the boss i was referring 2 is aziz rottenscalp. He dropped the golden air staff and the UW scroll.
3 of the skeleton rangers dopped between 30 and 35 bones each.

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Aziz_Rottenscalp

Of most groups of 5 undead rangers, 4 would drop something and 1 would drop nothing. Myabe plain luck, that's how it went. if you do not believe me now and throw mathematical nonsense at me I will be sick.

-EDIT- In case you didnt know, I farm in hard mode. gold drops increase there etc etc.

explodemyheart · Apr 22, 2007, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

snipped

My point still stands and is correct and is absolutely the crux of the issue.

The people that are upset are the kind of people that like to be rewarded for what they do. Even if it is just a game and it is supposed to be for fun and fun is what people are having even if they do farm for hours, they still like to be rewarded it.

Why do you think Anet added end game items? Adding items that you can get at if you just get through the game is an incentive to play through the storyline.
Quests have rewards so people will be rewarded with their time. Even if it is minimal reward, the deed does not go overlooked and you get a little bit of loot, xp and possibly an item of some kind (or in prophecies, skill unlocks). If quests didn't have rewards, a lot fewer people would be doing the quests.
Why do you think titles are so popular? A title is a reward saying, "Hey, look, I've done this and now I can show people!"

It's human nature. People like to be rewarded, in any way possible. Whether that be money, items, or even just recognition for their time spent.

StormLord · Apr 22, 2007, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enchanted Warrior

Ya know, it really saddens me to see so many, self centered and truly selfish, single minded people. They care only about themselves, and to hell with the majority of people playing the game. It's really sad..

The adjustments are no big deal, and will no doubt be refined. So many are going balistic about stuff that doesn't even exist... Scary..

Well said. I agree 100%.

arcanemacabre · Apr 22, 2007, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by explodemyheart

My point still stands and is correct and is absolutely the crux of the issue.

The people that are upset are the kind of people that like to be rewarded for what they do. Even if it is just a game and it is supposed to be for fun and fun is what people are having even if they do farm for hours, they still like to be rewarded it.

Why do you think Anet added end game items? Adding items that you can get at if you just get through the game is an incentive to play through the storyline.
Quests have rewards so people will be rewarded with their time. Even if it is minimal reward, the deed does not go overlooked and you get a little bit of loot, xp and possibly an item of some kind (or in prophecies, skill unlocks). If quests didn't have rewards, a lot fewer people would be doing the quests.
Why do you think titles are so popular? A title is a reward saying, "Hey, look, I've done this and now I can show people!"

It's human nature. People like to be rewarded, in any way possible. Whether that be money, items, or even just recognition for their time spent.

Exactly. And every one of those things are different forms of fun, and all those things are provided by and endorsed by Anet. Why should any one of those things make more in-game cash than the others? That's exactly what is/was wrong with farming. Farming for some is just as fun as questing is for others, it's just that now they pay off about the same, so both can have their fun, and make the same/similar amount of cash doing it.

Noz Crow · Apr 22, 2007, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Just up the drop percentage for 8 man parties and put the old drops back like they were. Then everyone makes more money and the economy balances out and everyone has more fun. Just like in the real world more people would rather be rich then to make all the people that are rich now poor. Please Gaile and Anet give us back the game we all love, It is still not to late.!.!. Bots will still bot no matter what so just let everyone get as wealthy as they want. Meaning, if someone is willing to play your formally wonderful game for hours and hours to make millions let them, they are your biggest ,most dedicated performers anyway.

arcanemacabre · Apr 22, 2007, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noz Crow

Just up the drop percentage for 8 man parties and put the old drops back like they were. Then everyone makes more money and the economy balances out and everyone has more fun.

See, I'd personally be fine with that, too. As long as people are not penalized for grouping, or *gasp* rewarded for grouping over soloing. If that means to up droprate for both soloers and full parties, so be it.

The only reason I could see for them to not do this is perhaps some vision of the economy around fixed priced items, like 15k armor, ID kits, etc. There may be some formula Anet works with that determines the right amount of cash flow for these items, while the player-driven economy can adjust itself accordingly.

Kaleban · Apr 22, 2007, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Farming for some is just as fun as questing is for others, it's just that now they pay off about the same, so both can have their fun, and make the same/similar amount of cash doing it.

I swear, some people just don't get it.

When questing in full groups of 8, one of the things besides xp and drops is camraderie, chatting and interaction.

When farming solo, you don't get that. So the commensurate reward was more drops, if you want to look beyond the simple fact of more work equaling more reward.

Different activities SHOULDN'T give the same material rewards. Otherwise you'd be getting drops from killing players in AB. What's that, you get faction which can be traded in for materials?

Well look at that, a reward from a different playstyle that is more than what you'd get playing normally in a group.

Why the focus fire on farming is beyond me, simply because ANet and Gaile have stated time and again they're not against it. What's even more baffling, is that despite posts in this and other threads that show the logic and rationale beyond a non-socialized economy, players continue to defend ANet and Gaile's remarks because they're emotional.

In Gaile's last post in this thread I was surprised, it sounded contrived in a way to make people defend ANet's ideas not due to the logic behind it (there isn't any) but because evil me and evil Kane hurt poor Gaile's feelings. That's PR spin at its best, fact deflection +1!

There STILL has been no answer in regards to some of they very fine ideas presented in this thread, from auction/trade windows to stabilizing armor pricing. Its called putting up a smokescreen, and what I find truly amsuing is that the people who don't farm really don't understand that farmers only affected them in a positive way by lowering prices, its BOTTERS flooding the economy with gold and making everything worse.

Great, punish the positive, reinforce the negative. My only real wish is that the people on this forum would think critically about the issue and make an informed decision, rather than just blindly supporting yet another supposed "bot nerf" but which only hurts the farmers, the economy, and to a large extent the entire playerbase.

Noz Crow · Apr 22, 2007, 09:01 PM // 21:01

I agree that if things stay this way the overall community will suffer. A new person to the game will commit suicide trying to buy armor and skills after the tuitorial places. I have seen several posts from new players in all these popular forums: "Hi I am new to Guild Wars how do i make some cash or What is the secret to get some dough here". One sad word is all i can tell them Grind and earn it.

Liberations · Apr 22, 2007, 09:01 PM // 21:01

I think they're all great updates but there seems to be a bug or something that really screws up how your get loot in a group. May just be luck, i don't know, but the drops are really pathetic. I think they should make it so that Tomes drop in all hard mode areas, and the same goes with gold/purple items and such in Hard Mode, because I haven't seen them at all yet. I'm not bashing, I just think there is some problems with Hard Mode drops as opposed to normal ones.

Liberations · Apr 22, 2007, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Now I totally agree... just get rid of loot Scaling once and for all... please... It just isn't working out, even in groups. I'm not going to go into the rights and wrongs of it. That's been done, just get it over with, please...

arcanemacabre · Apr 22, 2007, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

I swear, some people just don't get it.

When questing in full groups of 8, one of the things besides xp and drops is camraderie, chatting and interaction.

When farming solo, you don't get that. So the commensurate reward was more drops, if you want to look beyond the simple fact of more work equaling more reward.

Maybe it's you who aren't getting it. If you don't like farming, don't do it. It really is that simple. Anet upped the rewards in just about every other playstyle preferred by players so that no one has to farm for anything, period. So now you farm only if you want to, rather than feel forced to fall back on it to make some quick cash. Like you said, besides xp and drops, you also have camraderie, chatting and interaction (although all three mean about the same thing). It's simply more fun, why would you not want to make money that way above farming?

Liberations · Apr 22, 2007, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Maybe it's you who aren't getting it. If you don't like farming, don't do it. It really is that simple. Anet upped the rewards in just about every other playstyle preferred by players so that no one has to farm for anything, period. So now you farm only if you want to, rather than feel forced to fall back on it to make some quick cash. Like you said, besides xp and drops, you also have camraderie, chatting and interaction (although all three mean about the same thing). It's simply more fun, why would you not want to make money that way above farming?

Wait a minute I tried jst doing Vanquisher and I got nothing.. I better go keep trying to see where I can make my money, because I'm just too mentally exhausted to decide which side is right or which side is wrong.

explodemyheart · Apr 22, 2007, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

It's simply more fun, why would you not want to make money that way above farming?

Hi, that's called an opinion. What's fun to you is not fun to everybody.

Kaleban · Apr 22, 2007, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

It's simply more fun, why would you not want to make money that way above farming?

Its simply NOT more fun to sit in an outpost spamming LFG for a PUG, getting into one finally, getting no loot, and then wiping because people ragequit.

Its simply fun for me to shadowstep into a group of 40 or 50 monsters, then PWNZOR them with whatever skillset I have, and grab my drops.

My method of play is more fun for me than yours. Why is mine any less valid? And why should my way of play be wrecked, just because ANet refuses to address the real issue of botting?

Heck its their game, they can do what they wish, but at this point I'm probably not going to buy EN or 2, and only continue to play to help out my guildmates when they need it. The game has lost a fun component, and what boggles me is the stated balance reasons are logically flawed and only serve to hurt EVERYONE!

StormLord · Apr 22, 2007, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liberations

I think they're all great updates but there seems to be a bug or something that really screws up how your get loot in a group. May just be luck, i don't know, but the drops are really pathetic. I think they should make it so that Tomes drop in all hard mode areas, and the same goes with gold/purple items and such in Hard Mode, because I haven't seen them at all yet. I'm not bashing, I just think there is some problems with Hard Mode drops as opposed to normal ones.

Sounds like you just had some bad luck. I'm pretty sure tomes, golds and purples drop in all hard mode areas (at least I got a few of each, even while in a full party). Keep trying, and I'm sure your drops will improve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

Its simply NOT more fun to sit in an outpost spamming LFG for a PUG, getting into one finally, getting no loot, and then wiping because people ragequit.

Its simply fun for me to shadowstep into a group of 40 or 50 monsters, then PWNZOR them with whatever skillset I have, and grab my drops.

My method of play is more fun for me than yours. Why is mine any less valid? And why should my way of play be wrecked, just because ANet refuses to address the real issue of botting?

If solo farming is more fun for you, there is nothing to stop you from continuing to solo farm. Just don't expect to get 8x the rewards compared to people who prefer to play another way.

rohlfinator · Apr 22, 2007, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

When questing in full groups of 8, one of the things besides xp and drops is camraderie, chatting and interaction.

When farming solo, you don't get that. So the commensurate reward was more drops, if you want to look beyond the simple fact of more work equaling more reward.

I hope you don't actually believe that. Solo farmers got 8x the drops because they killed 8x the monsters. Don't try to claim that Anet weighed "camaraderie and interaction" as being equivalent to 7x a normal player's drops, and therefore decided to reward solo farmers based on that. It was a simple equation, not some elaborate social commentary.

Quote:

There STILL has been no answer in regards to some of they very fine ideas presented in this thread, from auction/trade windows to stabilizing armor pricing.

What do you expect them to do? If they promise an auction house now, and later find that it's technically infeasible, you people will be at their throats again when it doesn't pan out. These kind of game-altering changes can't be implemented overnight, and any developer with half a brain knows that it's suicide to announce hugely anticipated features while they're still completely speculation.

Seriously, it's been three days. Let the dust settle a bit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by explodemyheart

Hi, that's called an opinion. What's fun to you is not fun to everybody.

So play what is fun for you, and accept the reward that comes with it. The problem is that you want to have fun and make more money than everyone else, which is unfair to the rest of the community.

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

Its simply NOT more fun to sit in an outpost spamming LFG for a PUG, getting into one finally, getting no loot, and then wiping because people ragequit.

Wait, so first you said that solo farmers deserve compensation for not having the fun of group play, now you're saying that group play isn't fun. Sounds like you're grasping at straws a bit.

Quote:

My method of play is more fun for me than yours. Why is mine any less valid?

It's not. It's equally valid, and therefore deserves (relatively) equal rewards.

reetkever · Apr 22, 2007, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by silvershock

F*ck it. Outside bergen hot springs, kill all the undead till u reach the swirl to cursed lands. the boss i was referring 2 is aziz rottenscalp. He dropped the golden air staff and the UW scroll.
3 of the skeleton rangers dopped between 30 and 35 bones each.

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Aziz_Rottenscalp

Of most groups of 5 undead rangers, 4 would drop something and 1 would drop nothing. Myabe plain luck, that's how it went. if you do not believe me now and throw mathematical nonsense at me I will be sick.

-EDIT- In case you didnt know, I farm in hard mode. gold drops increase there etc etc.

lol I knew it, cause I used to do that run as well in the now called normal mode. ^^

I can't see how you can do all that within 5 minutes, though.

Don't get sick please, though

Loviatar · Apr 22, 2007, 09:40 PM // 21:40

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

I swear, some people just don't get it.

When questing in full groups of 8, one of the things besides xp and drops is camraderie, chatting and interaction. When farming solo, you don't get that. So the commensurate reward was more drops, if you want to look beyond the simple fact of more work equaling more reward.

commensurate reward for not having to deal with the jerks?

as for extra work and extra risk the *invincmonk*wasnt called that because of the risk of dying and most people have said that they work faster and easier solo

to quote you yourself

Quote:

Its simply NOT more fun to sit in an outpost spamming LFG for a PUG, getting into one finally, getting no loot, and then wiping because people ragequit.

Its simply fun for me to shadowstep into a group of 40 or 50 monsters, then PWNZOR them with whatever skillset I have, and grab my drops.

that shows how hard you are working ......not

bandini

explodemyheart · Apr 22, 2007, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by rohlfinator

So play what is fun for you, and accept the reward that comes with it. The problem is that you want to have fun and make more money than everyone else, which is unfair to the rest of the community.

I do play what's fun for me.

Do not take my post out of context. I was not suggesting that I can't do what I find fun now, it was simply in response to arcanemacabre suggesting that hard mode is more fun than solo farming so why should anybody complain.

That's simply not true. What is fun for him is not fun for everybody, that's the point.

As for having fun and making more money, I already made my point on this subject. I'll not address it again.